CIA Debriefer guy: the suicide murders – “The Look” vs “He’s cute.”

CIA

It seems that every number of days I have yet another CIA guy come into my life. I should keep a list of those from near, in the parish (like Mr Hudson!), and those far away in so many countries. I give the ones I write about frequently nicknames. Mr Hudson was “The Mechanic,” keeping in order, as he did, the Blackbird, the missiles and Apollo space missions. Another who is the blackest of black ops guys of black sites fame I simply call “The Guy.” There’s also been “The Internet baiter guy.” I myself am called “The Janitor” by a parishioner. A Janitor, mind you, takes out the trash, so to speak, as it were. Not that I’m CIA, and not that I do that, or ever did that, but you get the idea. This time I’ll give this particular guy the nickname: “The Debriefer  guy”, hailed by General […] in the Pentagon as one of the best debriefers he’s ever seen in action. As he says rather gruffly of himself: “I ask a lot of questions.”

The Debriefer guy started a bout of conversation with this volley: “Tell me about especially interesting people in your life.” I thought I would bait him right back, with a true story mind you, but one which surely he did not expect. He’s forever declaring himself to be tough on abuse, which statement, unprovoked, always raises a red flag for me. I think of frauds like Barbara Blaine (died 2017) and how she and her ilk were on the take. I’ll assume that The Debriefer is legit. After all, everyone should be tough on abuse, right? Oh, and he also says that he doesn’t know how he can trust any priest, etc., I guess trying to put me on the defensive. Whatever. We do live in dark times. I am very patient.

With that in mind, bad and evil that I am, I told him of an interesting fellow I met back in early January of 1991, who I only had one conversation with. I said it was the story of a 12 year old boy I met on an empty road in northern Palestine, the West Bank, whatever you want to call it. Just me and him, a “12 year old boy, and me, alone.” Oooo! I’m bad and evil, I know. That’s baiting, I know. But, let’s see what happens. This kid will go on to commit suicide. I am so bad and evil.

Let me preface this with some background of my own life. I’m a survivor-victim of what is surely the biggest child porn operation to date (that’s back in the 1960s-1970s). I’ve written pretty extensively about that. I’ve also written pretty extensively about some suiciders who have come to me throughout my life, many of whom were abused, starting when I was a little kid, through my teenage years, as a seminarian, then as a priest. There are those who were dissuaded, those who went on to kill themselves, of various ages, various religions, various cultures, various nationalities, various unrepeatable circumstances. Some were close friends, some very very very close friends, some classmates, some acquaintances or those I had just met the first time. Recently, a good friend from Georgia suffered his son committing suicide. And then, just the other day, the body is just now going cold, another good friend from N.C. suffered his son committing suicide. How to say it: suicide is very much part of my life. I take all suicide and mentions of suicide super seriously. I’m sensitive to it. But I’ll use discussion of it to bait if I think that’s important. Nothing about suicide is fodder for humor or a cause to be flippant. Ever. [I’ve removed tons of stuff here as this is too long already, with the stuff removed describing all sorts of categories of those I’ve had experience with…]

One category I described in a draft of this post are kids, or teenagers, or young adults, you know, who have vests of bombs strapped to them by their own parents and are told how much money the family will get and how nice heaven will be and what an honor it will be to be a “martyr”. Surreal: this is done with freakish joy. This is child abuse, brain-washing, evil, and not issuing from any religion worthy of the name. Some of it is theatrical, as least for a moment, but “The Look” is already there, even with those pretending to be happy:

suicide bomber land day 2001

And then it becomes all too real. And there’s “The Look.” Always. Airport security and checkpoint guys are trained to look for “The Look”. Can you see it? …

suicide-bomber

Actually, the above kid is scared to death, having been put up to this, not wanting to do it. The rest of the story, if I remember correctly, is that this guy was successfully able to be divested of the bomb-vest he was wearing. Israel is really good at this stuff. But there’s “The Look.” Mind you, “The Look” is anything but “cute.”

The CIA Debriefer guy had been trying to enlist me to spin stuff for the CIA.

  • During a phone call he had me make comments on the Middle-East and various Christian sects.
  • In an email I was urged to make comments on aspects of the Shoah.
  • A text from him instructed me on aspects to be aware of with some political vocabulary when putting a spin on things.

Non-stop, all pretty intense:

  • CIA Debriefer guy: Hey! Father George! Please, co-author books with us!
  • Me: No.
  • CIA Debriefer guy: Hey! Father George! Please, then, consult for us!
  • Me: No.
  • CIA Debriefer guy: Hey! Father George! Please, then, let us debrief you on stuff!
  • Me: No.
  • CIA Debriefer guy: Hey! Father George! Please, then, join our facebook group of CIA spin guys and gals and give opinions on stuff! Who cares if it’s not secure. That’s the point!
  • Me: No.
  • CIA Debriefer guy: Hey! Father George! Please, then, let us make movie shorts about people of interest in your life. I’ll contact my producer right now. (A full hour of explanation of their talents in film making followed, demonstrating this in various ways.)

Terrorist Saeed Hotary - dolphinariumThat’s when he the CIA Debriefer guy asked me about interesting people in my life and when I answered with a baiting story to get a reaction out of him. I told him of the 12 year old boy I had met who had gone on – ten years later – to become one of the worst suicide bombers anywhere, certainly in Israel. I looked up a picture of the suicide bomber of the Dolphinarium, then 22 year old Saeed Hotari and explained that I had a chance meeting with him ten years earlier, when he was already intent on doing the unthinkable. Saeed has got what I call “The Look,” which one has when one is intent on becoming a suicide bomber. “The Look” is from hell, and, as I say, is anything but “cute.” To say “cute” is like having a fetish. I’ve written about Saeed and “The Look” extensively elsewhere and I do think that this incident is important to recount, even in a CIA produced propaganda movie short. See, for instance: Update: My terrorist friend and the terrorist friend of USMC Secretary of Defense James “Mad Dog” Mattis. Apparently, my conversation with Saeed did him some good, delaying him for another ten years until he was again put up to it by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. And then, with huge pressure from his father and Zarqawi, and pressure having been put on him during all his impressionable years, “The Look” came to fruition. There were 120 wounded, maimed, hurt really badly. And twenty one died, some immediately, some after a few days, mostly newly arrived Russian Jewish girls residing in and around Tel Aviv:

  • Maria Tagiltseva, 14, of Netanya
  • Raisa Nimrovsky, 15, of Netanya
  • Ana Kazachkova, 15, of Holon
  • Katherine Kastaniyada-Talkir, 15, of Ramat Gan
  • Irina Nepomnyashchi, 16, of Bat Yam
  • Mariana Medvedenko, 16, of Tel Aviv
  • Yulia Nelimov, 16, of Tel Aviv
  • Liana Saakyan, 16, of Ramat Gan
  • Marina Berkovizki, 17, of Tel Aviv
  • Simona Rodin, 18, of Holon
  • Aleksei Lupalu, 16, of Ukraine
  • Yelena Nelimov, 18, of Tel Aviv
  • Irena Usdachi, 18, of Holon
  • Ilya Gutman, 19, of Bat Yam
  • Roman Dezanshvili, 21, of Bat Yam
  • Pvt. Diez (Dani) Normanov, 21, of Tel Aviv
  • Ori Shahar, 32, of Ramat Gan
  • Yael-Yulia Sklianik, 15, of Holon – died of her injuries on 2 June 2001
  • Sergei Panchenko, 20, Ukraine – died of his injuries on 2 June 2001
  • Jan Bloom, 25, of Ramat Gan – died of his injuries on 3 June 2001
  • Yevgeniya Dorfman, 15, of Bat Yam – died of her injuries on 19 June 2001

When the CIA Debriefer guy saw the picture of Saeed Hotari, he said: “He’s cute!” with a sing-song voice. Perhaps a deflection for not knowing what to say. But sometimes deflections are inappropriate. Sometimes deflections tell a story. I talked to someone else extremely capable with the psychology of debriefing and as soon as I recounted the “He’s cute!” part his response was to say, “This is exactly the kind of narcissism that needs to stop in America.”

Indeed. I mean… “He’s cute!”… ? I couldn’t believe my ears. So much for seeing “The Look” which is straight out of hell. How can people not see that? How can a CIA Debriefer not see that? “The Look” is NOT “cute.” I guess it helps to be bad and evil like me. I see stuff like “The Look” and understand it for what it is. But really, seriously, so should everyone who does this for a living. But maybe it’s the ol’ counterintel thing, where he’s baiting me baiting him baiting me baiting him… and around and around the vortex swirls.

I then responded to his question about doing movie shorts based on such things with a simple and utterly deadpan response:

  • Me: No.
  • CIA: But I can contact my producer right now, you know, […]. [He slowly introduces me to all names of his group, baiting me to ask about them.
  • Me: No.

Reflection on all this:

  • Perhaps one reader or another might think me to be mean in saying “No.”
  • Perhaps one reader or another might think I’m reading too much into “Cute.” The same thing was said, after all, about Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.
  • Perhaps one reader or another might think me to be unpatriotic in not helping the CIA with such things.
  • Perhaps one reader or another might think that I’m just lazy.

Here’s the deal: I could do all this and do it really well with the deadest of dead pan reality checks. But any interest in me is based not on me, but on the fact that I’m on a perpetual interdepartmental program that cannot be unmasked, not because of me, but because of the guy who stole my identity, the one I call my “Shadow.” But with all files destroyed as part of that program, no one can tell us apart for sure. Is it him or me or both of us or none of us anymore? It also doesn’t help that he looks like me and is the same age. It doesn’t help that Main State protects him in his using my identity. He entrenched under my identity so quickly because of exigent circumstances that he can’t now get out of it. Right now he’s playing the idiot, ensuring that no one thinks he’s the one who would have been capable of doing what he did under my name. But the more I protest that I’m just me, the more it’s thought I’m some sort of agent. No. That’s why I say “No.” I would say yes if this other thing was cleared up. But then, if it were, there would be no more interest in me, would there? No. So, for all this, I just have to say “No.” This CIA guy even asked me what my job title was in the CIA, after me denying such connections with the CIA for the zillionth time. Just. No.

But this CIA guy doesn’t take “No!” for an answer. What to do?

P.S. [And postscripts are always the purpose of anything written, right?] The central point in such conversations comes down to what to do about stuff. I repeat the central point of Pope Benedict’s Regensburg Address, that dialogue must use reason, and then add the response of Islamicists throughout the world, that no dialogue with reason is possible on religious grounds. We say that there is an analogy of reason with God and God’s creatures, so that although God’s ways are above our fallen ways, but that nevertheless, what is truly judged to be just and good by God should also be judged to be just and good by ourselves, His creatures. Islamicists, instead, say that this is not the case, that Allah’s reasoning is simply totally different and contradictory to our reasoning with no analogy between the two, so that what is judged to be just and good by Allah is judged to be unjust and evil by us, though we should, in the opinion of Islamicists, do Allah’s bidding anyway, as in putting children to death as “martyrs” for the cause, with bombs strapped to them. Every time I make that central point that is admitted by all on both sides, it is NOT accepted by The Debriefer guy, but just dismissed, blown off, really, as in “Yawn… interesting” – every time – and said with the most bored to death tone of voice ever, even while immediately then moving on in the conversation. Look, if The Company wants to be up front and have me teach counterintel about religious stuff, I would happy to do so. But all this other F***ery has to stop. When will we get serious. Too many people are dead. Oh. That’s right. That’s the point. More suicide. Which brings me back to the GTMO guys giving me an assignment concerning murder portrayed as suicide. Oh, and didn’t we have an Islamicist a while back as Director of the CIA? Oh, I see.

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Filed under Intelligence Community, Interreligious dialogue, Missionaries of Mercy, Patriotism, Suicide, Terrorism

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