Tag Archives: Cardinal Arthur Roche

Have some game, your Eminence! Be not afraid! Let’s do up the debate in front of La disputa del Sacramento (The Disputation of the Sacrament) by Raphael. That would be most appropriate as the Stanze di Raffaello in the Apostolic Palace are entirely secure, and, back in the day, this Stanza della Segnatura was where the Supreme Papal Tribunal met.

Let’s do it in English since English speakers seem to be among the most rebellious of those who love the Traditional Latin Mass.

Let’s have two time-keepers, one from either side. You might want someone loud and forceful such as Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin for your timekeeper, but I think I’ll ask another untitled parish priest in another very small parish who has already been checked out by Vatican security. All good.

We should have two moderators asking the questions, again, one from either side. You might like a smooth-talker like Cardinal Blase J. Cupich, or perhaps someone a bit more brash like Cardinal Robert W. McElroy. For myself, I know a layman with no name recognition who happens to be the best in the world at hunting (within the confines of the law) human and sex-traffickers, and who has, I’m sure, already been vetted by the Holy See’s Intel for all the great work he does. All good.

It’s not like you don’t have a good chance of winning. You have power and prestige and know how to put on a tone to say things are really very serious, though it strikes me that you may not have much looked into the eyes of Mary to ask her just how serious things are with the Sacrifice of the Mass, with her dear Son:

As for me, well, you know me already. You’ve written to me personally investigating my relationship with the TLM. I’m in the smallest, most remote parish perhaps in the world as an otherwise untitled parish priest, truly on the far side of the peripheries. I do have some degrees (SSL, STD), but, alas, nothing from San Anselmo. I was in talks to do my doctorate there with the head of that institute as moderator, but at the last minute I decided that the PIB would be better for my purposes. The point is that right now I’m just another run-of-the-mill priest, but that’s what makes this interesting. It’s the little guy you’re personally hurting. That would be me and those like me. We are interested in the most insignificant people, are we not?

Sure, we could get the great liturgists on the Traditionalist side, those who have read everything and written really so very much indeed. But such debates have already taken place ad nauseam at the old Ecclesia Dei at the one-time CDF, right? A flood of factual information useful in any other era in the history of the Church isn’t quite so useful at this moment. After all, this isn’t about Liturgy, but about your ideology over against the faith of Jesus’ Little Flock. To win, I simply have to show how everything you say mocks Jesus and His Sacrifice, and that God will not be mocked. I’m not saying you do that in your own soul, just that that’s what you objectively present.

I’m sure you also don’t need any experts to use as proxies, since you’re already at the top of the heap liturgically, and this, again, is not about the liturgy, but rather about your ideological insistence that, specifically, the Church’s theology (read: doctrine) is a load of crap, and that everything that holds up that theology like the Traditional Latin Mass is a load of crap. Your words, your Eminence.

Let’s see, how is it that the Church’s theology (read: doctrine) has changed. Is it that for the New Order of Mass:

• Jesus is not divine.
• Jesus is not the Messiah.
• Jesus is not the Suffering Servant.
• There is no such thing as sin.
• There is no such thing as forgiveness of sin.
• Jesus was a fool to stand in our place, Innocent for the guilty so as to have the right in His own justice to have mercy on us.
• The Eucharist is just a piece of bread and the chalice merely contains wine after the consecrations.
• Jesus is merely a symbol.
• And so on and so forth…

I will win for those who believe in Jesus. You will win for those who are, perhaps to no fault of their own, self-absorbed narcissists. Hey! It’s a win-win! Everyone will know where everyone stands. And that’s always good in these times of ambiguity and bullying and bullying with ambiguity. So, nothing to lose for anyone. Let’s do it!

Format? To start, it would surely be good to have fifteen minutes each to present an overview of one’s point of attack. Graphics allowed. You always start, since you’re not the underdog, to say the least.

• You can emphasize “Changing Church theology requires TLM restriction” with “changing” referring to active Hegelian manipulation or diversely to a de facto description of acquiescence to sinful behavior and heretical thought that cannot tolerate Jesus’ Sacrifice, or both, or whatever you think. There are endless anecdotes for either and both together or anything else.
• Meanwhile, I will demonstrate from Traditionis custodes, the responses to dubia, etc., an objective rejection of Jesus and His Sacrifice on the one hand and how the Traditional Latin Mass provides an occasion for reverent thanksgiving to Jesus by the Lord’s Little Flock on the other hand.

After that, the moderators can alternate in providing not speeches, but questions timed to thirty seconds, always going to you first for a five minute response, followed by myself for a five minute response to the question and to you. This can go for as long as you like. Should you interrupt, the time-keepers will bring order back to the debate and provide time for me to respond to your interruption. The fresco of the disputa will remind us both, however, that the outcome is already assured. All good.

Let’s be joyful, your Eminence. Let’s have a debate.

I should warn you, though, your Eminence, any insult you make to Jesus and His Sacrifice is taken as a direct and very personal insult by Immaculate Mary, Jesus’ Virgin Mother. Jesus doesn’t take kindly to His dear Mother getting insulted.